Crazy Stone Deep Learning -The First Edition-

First things first – this game will not teach you the rules of Go. If you’re a total beginner, this isn’t the game for you: there’s no tutorial, and the documentation is very basic, so if you’ve never played Go before, please check out some of the excellent resources available on the web first. (One excellent place to start would be Reddit at /r/baduk – Baduk being the Korean name for the game.) If you already know how to play, then the question you should ask is, is this game for you? The obvious thing the game offers you is the AI. Rated up to 7d, this is the most powerful commercially available Go AI, and can challenge all but the most skilled amateurs. Its minimum setting of 13k, on the other hand, should match up pretty well against anyone with more than a handful of games’ experience. In addition, the game supports handicaps up to 9 stones, and based on a couple of games, it does a good job of playing handicap Go (far from universal amongst Go AIs). So while a player of almost any skill level can get a good game from Crazy Stone, all but the strongest could do the same against any number of cheaper or free AIs available. Given that, why would you pay such a steep price for the best AI? The reason is the item at the bottom of the features list: the Analysis Engine. Crazy Stone allows you to review and analyze games you’ve played against the computer as well as games from the major online Go servers (anything that can export a game record in standardized format). For each move you can see Crazy Stone’s analysis – including the top 20 moves it considered and the relative value of each. If you’re willing to put in the time to go through it, this is almost like being able to play a teaching game any time you want, having a 7d grade your moves. For me, the Analysis Engine is worth the entire price of admission. I’m roughly 1k-1d strength, so I usually know most of the moves that Crazy Stones evaluates, but going through the analysis gives me tons of food for thought about the differences between them. Technical notes: this program can use all the CPU you can give it. I’m running this on a fairly beefy CPU i7-5930K, 6-core 3.5Ghz – looking at the Analysis Engine, this allows it to simulate about 10,000 games per second. Generally speaking, it seems to take around 30,000 simulations to get a good analysis for a move, so about three seconds on this machine. I also tried it on an i7-3770K, 4-core 3.5 GHz – 7,000 games/second, and an i7-4810MQ, 4-core 2.8 GHz laptop – 6,000 games/second. So it seems like most 4-cores would need around five seconds of analysis time per move. Unfortunately, I don’t have any duo-cores to try out, but you can probably figure on doubling that time to ten seconds.

When Crazy Stone deep learning first came out, it was one of the earliest "really good" programs you could buy and play against. It's well made, for most people very strong, simple and easy to use. It's also possible to "review" games, and look for better moves. It's a nice program to play for every amateur GO player and Go enthusiast out there. But other AIs got better really fast. LeelaZero dominates CrazyGo completely and is free and easy to use for everyone who wants. Other negative remark about this game: it's finished. Other AIs are still developing, but CrazyStones has never seen an update once. Ever. You can call it Abadonware. So why buy this at 70-80EUR/USD? --> You don't, it's simple as that. Not even for 20 bucks. Maybe for 10. A GO AI which plays 4-5D Amateur isn't worth anything nowadays.

[h1]Наконец-то Го в Steam![/h1] [quote=Михаил Крюков] Я автор [url=https://mkrukov.ru/blog/all/vse-o-nastolnoy-igre-go-weiqi-baduk-igo/]самой детальной статьи по Го на русском языке.[/url] Вокруг нее даже собралось активное коммьюнити, вступай к нам [url=https://t.me/+yMT2ffS4XFBiYzMy]в чат в телеге[/url][/quote] [quote=Me]Read my guide on how to learn how to play Go: [url=https://mkrukov.ru/all-about-the-board-game-go-weiqi-baduk-igo/]All about the board game Go (Weiqi, Baduk, Igo)[/url][/quote] Узнал вчера о том, что Crazy Stone вышла в Steam, сегодня уже купил. До этого имел опыт игры с ботами GnuGo, Zen, Aya, Fuego, SilverStar, Darkforest и прочие разные. Основные программы на которых играл это: The Many Faces of Go и Zenith Go (Tencho no Igo). Сразу поясню, что [u]я не считаю себя сильным любителем[/u]. Я когда-то начинал играть, потом бросал, опять начинал и опять бросал. Так что сам не понимаю какой мой уровень толком, но он низкий - это точно. Рекордом было когда я до 12-10кю добрался. Сейчас еще ниже. Наверное) Тем не менее я покупал Crazy Stone для того, чтобы учиться играть у бота, так как на реальные партии иногда времени нет, да и прогресс очень медленный. Плюс анализировать уже сыгранные партии. У ботов имеется такая тенденция, что они либо слишком слабые, либо слишком сильные. Например в The Many Faces of Go был период около 7-8 кю, когда бот вдруг начинал резко хорошо играть. В игре с Zen я вообще всегда проигрывал, так как там минимальный уровень это 6 кю. В итоге купив эту программу я думал, что меня с треском опять разнесут на 13 кю и придется играть с форой, что я не люблю делать. Но не тут то было! Я легкостью разнес 13, 12, 11 и 10 кю подряд. Правда 1 раз меня таки вынесли, но это статистическая погрешность :) Я не особо вдумывался и не просчитывал серьезно ходы, просто строил стенки и давил где надо. Почесав голову я удивился, почему же так, ведь я нуб. Решил проверить его силу на 3 и 7 дане и понял, что он все же силен) Свел его с моим Zen 9.7 (5 дана) и этого Crazy Stone (7 дана). К моему удивлению хоть Crazy Stone и проиграл немного, но держался очень и очень уверенно и вел отличную игру. Несмотря на то, что думал он на порядок меньше, чем Zen, в котором я вообще включил режим анализа и ждал наилучшего хода. Что касается анализа, то я не до конца разобрался. Но там имеется куча каких-то данных, которые должны нам помочь понять как идет или как лучше вести игру. Для себя отметил пока лишь несколько: дельту и лучший ход CS. Отдельным плюсом хочу отметить то, что там (лично для меня) более удобно сделаны ветки и после каждой новой можно поиграть с ботом, как если бы партия продолжалась. В Zenith Go сам анализ сделан чуть удобнее для пользователя, но никаких данных, продолжений игры с любого места и нормальных веток там нет. [b]Выводы:[/b] [list] [*] Не бойтесь, если вы новичок. Она вам подойдет, едва вы станете 17-15 кю, а это наступает очень быстро. На крайний случай тут имеются доски 9х9, 13х13 и фора. [*] Большой охват уровней. Можно начинать чуть ли не с нуля и подниматься выше. На всю жизнь хватит, если только вы не профессионально учитесь играть и можете победить 7 дан CS) [*] Разбирать партии реально удобно, печатает красивые кифу в pdf со всеми данными, ходами и прочими ништяками. К тому же тут похоже впервые в жизни нормальные подсказки, которые помогают. Прежде чем посоветовать, он подумает, а не как в других программах. [/list] [b]Минусы:[/b] [list] [*] Нет мультиплеера, но это не страшно. Я играю на Tygem, других серверов тоже полно. [*] Высокая цена. Купив ее я впервые понял, что она стоит на 20р дороже, чем сейчас GTA5 по скидке. Но ничуть не жалею) Вряд ли цена опустится, такова политика всех гошных программ, коих не много. [/list] Было бы круто, если бы программу дорабатывали. Длц может делали или еще что. Цены бы ей не было! [i]В общем вывод прост. Если тебе интересно го, то: 1) Покупай Crazy Stone 2) Покупай годовой абонемент на любой сервис с задачами (мой любимый [url=http://gochild2009.appspot.com/]этот[/url], но можно и [url=http://www.goproblems.com/]тут[/url]) 3) Создавай аккаунт на [url=http://www.tygemgo.com/]Tygem[/url], [url=http://pandanet-igs.com/]IGS[/url], [url=www.gokgs.com]KGS[/url], [url=online-go.com]OGS[/url], [url=http://www.wbaduk.com/]Wbaduk[/url]. Любой выбирай, но для новичка подойдет Ogo и Tygem 4) Играй, играй и еще раз играй!) Если много свободного времени, то можно почитывать книги, смотреть стримы на ютубе, общаться в группах в вк или встречаться в реале и играть.[/i] P.S. Можете подумать, что эту программу можно заменить на Tabletop Simulator? У меня он есть и поверьте на слово - там не го, а симулятор доставания камня из чаши.

This is a pretty good game. But with 2020 around the corner, it should really cost at most $20, not $114.95 (for me). Some things I like about it: - nice interface & info presentation - lots of features done well: save to SGF with move numbers, replay from a certain point as human / AI / both / neither / swapped, winning % bar, AI works for all board sizes, deep analysis (need good PC, I didn't understand it well either) - can play offline However there are huge cons: - PRICE - windows only - AI plays weird at lower levels, not really like a player of that skill level - no updates I would recommend you take your $ and support online-go.com, which basically is better than this in every way: - free - also has good interface & presentation - AI at every level that plays naturally like that level! - if you donate some $ each month (like $5 = coffee), you can get pro level analysis & move suggestions at any point in game; otherwise you get 3 biggest losing plays of your game and alternatives only - works everywhere b/c it's in browser, looks good even on mobile... (although will be hard to play 19x19 on mobile) - all games tracked, can see yourself progressing! - has community, play with real people if you want! - constantly gets updated - analysis is understandable (done post game), can be played flawlessly on the weakest of computers These are just things from the top of my head. Only con is you can only play online. If you really need offline, you can get a free app with stronger AI, analysis, looks good (search "lizzie go"). Don't pay this price in 2019, or beyond. This really should just be $10.

棋力 很差 ，而且 游戏很贵

下完之後可以複盤 顯示敗著應該下哪邊可以改善 我覺得相當不錯 等於買了一個圍棋老師

Its a lie. Its not 7 dan. Its barely 1-2 dan on KGS on typical computer with i7. Dont buy it guys.

Strong engine, plays almost like a human - I haven't seen any funny robot-style moves yet. Anyone except complete beginners can play against it. The lowest strength the engine can play is 13k - if you add handicap to that, then even ~20k players can get some benefit. The user interface seems dated, but don't let that fool you - underneath it there's a great Go engine that plays a strong game and doesn't suffer from the usual issues of previous generation engines. One issue is that the engine doesn't speak the GTP protocol, so you can't use it with a generic UI like GoGui. If they add GTP in an update, it would be great.

has been way too expensive even when it came out many years ago, has few functions and no friendly UI at all (which could be expected at 60€), and received none of the promised updates

Incredible! I've been playing Weiqi for a while before getting this software, and now play at about 4-kyu, and I'm greatly impressed by the AI of Crazy Stone Deep Learning. I usually play against the 7d computer level on 19x19 when I have a lot of time. 6d or 5d when I'm in the mood for a quick game. 3k to 1d when I'm feeling like trying to beat a stronger opponent. The higher levels teach me a lot about the game. Mistakes at my level are quickly punished by the AI. I often use the [estimate] Territory function when experimenting against stronger levels so I can see what works and what doesn't, and why. The interface, music and sound effects are simple but quite comfortable. I look forward to The Second Edition. Of course, I also do some study from books and videos online to make best use of my "Go" time, so I can improve faster and enjoy playing this and stronger human players even more. Very well worth the money if you're serious about improving your game!! It's rare I can ever play a 1d+ human player in my small city, so being able to play 7d anytime as often as I like is huge for me. Thank you. If you're a weak player, you might not like the price, and might want to buy a $10 book first, or buy an easy game instead if you're not serious about Weiqi / Baduk / Igo / "Go". However, I wouldn't discourage a beginner from buying this if serious about the game and can afford the investment. You can play against the 13 kyu level AI on 9x9, 13x13 and 19x19 boards, and work your way up the levels. (A beginner is 30-kyu but usually improves quickly.) If you're quite strong and don't want a $20 program you can beat easily, this is well worth $80. For those mentioning AlphaGo, you can't buy it, and it runs on a neural network of something like 2000 cores, for a super corporation's AI research and development that will someday "go" way beyond board games. So, why compare AlphaGo to $80 software you can enjoy right now?